Memories and Thoughts on USS Raton's WestPac Cruises & Other Times

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From: Jolene Jaster <gary.jolene@juno.com
To: hwoods@knology.net
Cc: bdecker@shentel.net
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2002 12:31 AM
Subject: Raton

You were the first person I met when I reported on board in July 1962. You gave me an important lesson about being honest. You told me about an investigation that cost Uncle Sam a lot of money.

Someone lied to save their hide and caused a big investigation. You said to always take responsibility for my actions. I have thought of that often in life. You were the XO as I recall. I was only on the boat long enough to qualify.

There was about 6 of us that left from Hong Kong during our Westpac cruse. Do you have any old rosters that might have Walter Johnston on them? I have been trying to contact him for years . He left for nuc school in the class before me and I never could find him. I remember taking the Jar heads out and pulling them with the scope. We also took some Korean Marines out also. They could have used a shower. They came in the mess hall and each one picked up a plate of food and wouldn't share it.

Dennis Gary Jaster MM3SS
gary.jolene@juno.com

From: William P. Rice
To: bdecker@shentel.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 2:43 PM
Subject: Raton's 1961 WestPac Cruise

I got a letter from Hammering Hand, the 1961 skipper of Raton. He assured me that the Raton was not in Viet Nam waters in 1961.

If so, I'd like to hear from any shipmate that was on that cruise to ask them if they remember taking on 12-14 Marines, Seals, Rangers, or whatever during that cruise, surfacing one night and putting them in a rubber raft where they rowed ashore. Is my imagination running wild or was this a different boat at a different time and my memory is messed up?

I would also like to know if they remember the intelligence officer who had a special fitting on the scopes for a camera and took many, many pictures of something while we were over there. I even watched him develop his own film in the wardwoom galley sink.

I also remember, spending a lot of time topside on lookout for downed pilots. Where were we then and why were we looking for downed pilots - just a drill? Again, am I imagining these evens or were they dreams of some kind? All, in all I figured this was our effort in Viet Nam during 1961. Please pass then on to our shipmates.

I would like to hear from a 1961 shipmate and see if they remember these events. Does anyone remember riding out the Typhoon?????? During that cruise I was the ships Yeoman and a YN2(SS). Passed the test on the Raton for YN1, then changed my rate to MT1(SS), road the boomers and retired as FTCS(SS), USN.

From: Larry Kramer ldkramer43@hotmail.com
To: bdecker@shentel.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Raton's 1961 WestPac Cruise

BILL DON'T QUOTE ME BUT I THINK THE VIETNAM WAR STARTED IN 1963. WE WERE IN WESPAC(SUBIC) WHEN WE WERE CALLED TO VIETNAM TO RELIEVE A FAST ATTACK BOAT.

LARRY

From: Candido Gutierrez
To: Billrice@ev1.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 8:37 PM
Subject: Vietnam in "61?

Hey Bill,

You seem to have everything right except the date in time. The Raton
didn't get involved in Vietnam until 1964. We came out of dry dock in
San Francisco and went down to our home port in San Diego. While there, in June 1964 we got word that the U.S. was at war with Vietnam. None of us enlisted knew who or what Vietnam was so we asked the Duty Officer, who also didn't know. He had to look it up.

All leave was cancelled and off we went to Yankee Station. On the way
back we hit a typhoon that I captured on file. I had my super 8 mm movie
camera that I bought in Subic Bay. I still get sea sick just watching the
movie.

Oh! and the Captain was Bourne.

Candie Gutierrez, EN2(SS) U.S.S. Raton 1964-1967

From: BFLOBRTH@cs.com
To: bdecker@shentel.net

Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 10:55 PM

Subject: Re: Fw: Raton's 1961 WestPac Cruise

I recall an incident off the shores of San Onofre Beach, off Camp Pendleton when we were doing local ops and we launched some seals from the boat, in a rubber inflatable, and they went ashore on a night infiltration type sortie...the story, as I recall it, ended up (we learned later, when we got back to San Diego) that a California Highway Patrol saw the boat approaching the shore off highway 101, and did a surveillance, allegedly captured infiltrators as possible "Rusky" spies and had full news coverage. Like you, I am trying to confirm this, or is it too just a fantasy or dream?

The CO was Henry Pfelps (Hammerin' Hank and his submersible tank).
I was RM2/1...but have no knowledge of this during west-pac cruise...

I was on the Raton from Jan. 1966 to Jan. 1968. In April of 1966 we went on a WestPac cruise, returning in October of 1966. While on this cruise we encountered a typhoon; dropped off 12 to 14 special ops people with grease guns in rubber boats; stood lifeguard for planes taking off of aircraft carriers; spent 30 days submerged listening for Chinese subs in the Gulf of Tonkin, had too good of times in Japan, South Korea, Thailand, Okinawa, Guam, Hawaii, Hong Kong, Subic, and wonderful calm nights in the middle of the Pacific.
Jerry (BOZO) Broitzman (IC2SS).

The Raton was in Vit Nam waters in 67 conducting ops. with various units of our fleet. We did have ops. with the Seals and the Rangers which is still classified. QMC(SS) Orba N.Hall USN Ret.

As I remember, we provided training service for the Marine Beach-Recon Unit out of Okinawa on our cruise in 1959 or 1960. The Marine Captain was an Annapolis class mate of mine. I remember telling him if the marines would work off the lee side rather than the windward side, they would have less problems capsizing in their rubber rafts. His answer was "Let them figure it out for themselves. That way they will remember it next time." Sure enough, after an hour or so, they figured it out.

After the first day, we started night training where they would snare the periscope and we would tow them out further to sea, out of harms way, where we could surface and take them back aboard.

I can't remember whether the skipper was Joe Talago or Hank Phelps at the time. The problem with age!

I remember that operation. Also, there was a device on the periscope to mount the camera and take pictures take pictures. I took many picture of ships that we would make a torpedo run on while we were in West Pac. in 1959. I left the boat in the middle of June 1960 while she was in San Diego.
Norm Campbell SO3 SS

From: Frank Torres U-Boat@webtv.net
To: Bill Decker bdecker@shentel.net
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Raton's 1961 WestPac Cruise

If we were in Westpac, what were we doing off the coast of California?
Also, there were no Seals is 1961. As a TM Leading Petty Officer, I would have had something to do with those type of ops, and it never happened, unless it was before March, '61.

From: Doug Parish dwpar@mail.com
To: bdecker@shentel.net
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Raton's 1961 WestPac Cruise

Thought I would insert my ain't what it used to be memory into the discussion.

Don't recall anything about Viet Nam but the event with the Marine Rangers noted in Bill Rice's and Paul Apodaca's messages went as follows by my recollection.

We took Marine Rangers up north of San Diego off Cardiff by the sea which may well be San Onofre Beach. The rangers were doing swim outs to the beach and on one occurrence when they came up on the beach a HP officer met them coming the other way with a shotgun and had them laying face down on the beach for several hours while trying to find out who they were since they went out without any ID on them.

After messages went back and forth between HP, Pendleton, Subflot One and Raton they were released and returned to Raton....a follow on that I still think is funny was that Hammerin Hank let them know that he thought it was funny and on the next night swim out they took Hammerin Hanks shoes and clothes out with them and tied them around the Binocular stand on the Bridge where they stayed until we later surfaced.....

On Paul Apodaca's Spook story...The Spook's came aboard and took over the Radio Shack with all their equipment and evicted the Radiomen to the Sonar Shack with a long cord and a pair of headphones to copy our regular CW broadcasts...I don't remember for sure which part of the 61 Cruise this happened but believe it was in Yokosuka...also I certainly remember riding out the Typhoon that trip....I carried a near gallon can around with me...and we ran on the surface with the scope up and water still washed over the scope..hope I haven't added too much confusion to the mix....

Ken (Al) Allum EN3SS.

From: Phebe Cress
To: G. L. Broitzman ; Bill Decker
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 8:45 PM
Subject: Raton's 1961 WestPac Cruise - or the 1968 one?

In the fall of 1968 we left on a "top secret" mission to Viet Nam. Raton's hull number was painted out, and we had taken aboard 24 mines and two torpedos with nuclear war heads. No one other than the torpedo gang was allowed in the forward torpedo room.

We spent 3 or 4 days in Pearl Harbor where all the crew were required to edure a "prisioner of war" training camp. As I recall, it was run by Filipinos and was most realistic. Out next stop, after leaving Pearl, was the island of Cebu in the Philippines where we were met by locals in their bum-boats selling souveniers. I bought a sea shell with Raton's picture and hull number painted on it. So much for security.

We then went to Yokosuka, Japan, for a week or so and then to southeast Asia where we created an international incident by mining Haiphong Harbor. It was there that I watched from the bridge as our Quartermaster took pictures of the Russian ships, while we were on the surface, from a distance of a hundred yards or less - while their own Quartermasters happily clicked photos of us.

After that hair-raising experience, we went to Pusan, Korea, and picked up a couple dozen South View Nam commandos and took them up some North Viet Nam river (which name escapes me) at night, to land them in their rubber boats. We went up the river on the battery so as not to make too much noise and attrack enemy fire, but one of the props tangled with a fishing net and we spent a fairly tense hour while our U.D.T. diver, Cason, went over the side from the turtleback to free us. The commandos disembarked in their boats and we turned around and left as fast as we could.

Either en route to the Philippines or on the way to Japan, I forget which, we did ride out a typhoon on the surface for three days, which greatly displeased some of the crew, as we thought the captain should have dived the boat to escape the wrath of the storm.

Jake Cress

From: Herbert Woods hwoods@knology.net
Cc: Bill Decker bdecker@shentel.net
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: Raton

I left the RATON prior to the end of the cruise and went to Postgraduate
School at Webb Institute. I became a submarine designer (deep submersible specialty) and spent the remainder of my career as an Engineering Duty Officer.

On one of my nuclear refueling jobs, Rickover wanted me to hide a mistake his people made, and when I refused to do it unless he gave me written orders, he arranged to send me dispatch orders to Vietnam (I felt it would be at least a 100 years before they would need a submarine designer).

I made the mistake of learning to speak Vietnamese and spent four years there, and I became the only EDO in the Navy that also became a qualified SEAL (under the Vietnamese qual program). During the first part of my Vietnamese assignment, I worked for Hank Phelps (ex CO Raton) who was CO of Navy Support Activity, DaNang.

Regards,
Herb Woods

From: Candido Gutierrez
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 11:24 PM

Subject: Raton

Hi Wine,

Glad to hear from you. I think we are both right to a certain extent. We were in Subic Bay when we were told to rig the boat for depth charges and we had to place those huge covers on our hatches and bolt them down. Remember they required something like 125 bolts and fit on the lower lip of the hatches?

If you will check I believe the Maddox with fired upon in late May or early June of '64. That, I believe is what broke the camel's back and President Johnson in effect and without congress, declared war on Vietnam. We had just completed our sea trials after the overhaul at Hunter's Point and were tied up in San Diego, our home port.

All leave was cancelled and we left for Westpac shortly thereafter without torpedoes or extra fuel. At Pearl Harbor we loaded up with Torpedoes, fuel and groceries. From there we departed for Subic Bay. While at Subic we got word officially that we would be heading for the Tonkin Gulf and told to make the boat ready for war.

I do believe some of us were on liberty when word came down to saddle-up and ride off immediately. Hence, Shore Patrol rounding up guys from Olongapo some time in August of '64.

Being an Engineman, I have no knowledge of coordinates, but I should remember something of an oil or fuel oil spill. However, I just don't. Maybe Larry or Biff my remember a leaky fuel valve at the time.

Yes, Wine, I do recall having a personal interview with the XO (I believe) who placed a document in front of me and instructed me to sign it. If memory serves me, it only referred to restrictions on revealing our current position or future destinations. I guess they just wanted to insure that we understood that, "loose lips-sink ships." If anybody remembers exactly what the document contained, I'd like to hear about it to refresh my memory.

Sorry I got long winded. It happens with age and telling sea stories.

Candie

From: V Vinyard lewiscontrols@hotmail.com
To: bdecker@shentel.net
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Vietnam in "61?

Bill:

Candie is close but no cigar. I believe we were in Subic Bay when we
received a "Branding Iron" to leave port. I was on liberty with Crampton
and Trundy at the time. I believe it was in August of 1964. The shore patrol told us to return to the boat. When we got back our shipmates were putting up depth charge hatches.

Evidently the two Destroyers (the Maddox and Turney Joy) in Tonkin Bay, radioed that they were under attack by enemy forces in the bay of Tonkin. Unfortunately at the time, they didn't say who the enemy forces were. Hell, I thought it might be China.

Anyway, we were to patrol the bay of Tonkin for a six week period. After approximately 2 weeks, Captain Bourne noticed through the periscope that we were leaving an oil slick from our boat (it turned out to be a leaking filling valve in one of our fuel tanks).

We left Tonkin Bay, broke radio silence, and reported as to why the Caption decided to leave the area. When we left Subic Bay there was only one submarine in port with us at the time.

When we returned, there were around 6 or 8 in port. I believe they were rotating with 6 or 8 other submarines in or around Tonkin Bay. Me being an auxillary Electrician at the time, one of my duties was to report our longitude, lattitude, depth and speed to Captain Bourne every hour. So did the other two auxillary electricians.

A piece of paper was placed over these instruments so only a hand full of people at the time knew we were in Vietnam. If my memory serves me right, the whole crew had to sign a document stating we would not discuss where we were during this operation. I cannot say for certain that we were or were not in Vietnam, but according to the longitude at latitude readings I was reporting to Captain Bourne, we were either above it or below it in 1964.

Your Shipmate (and friend)
Virgil (Wine) Vinyard

From: Sam Etter
To: Bill Decker

Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2002 2:34 PM

Subject: Re: Raton

Candie,
Your facts concur with my memory. We were instructed not to tell where we had been and a bar maid told me where the Raton had been.
Sam Etter

From: Crampton, Gary L
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 11:00 AM

Subject: FW: Raton

Hi Shipmates,

We left San Diego for the '64 WesPac the beginning of July. Arrived Subic about 31 July for what was supposed to be a 2-3- week upkeep. The USS Maddox DD-731 was fired at on August 2,1964. Yes, Trundy, Wine and I were on liberty at he time when told by the Shore Patrol to get back to the boat. Believe we still stopped for 2 or 3 or ? San Miguels before we got back to the main gate. And of course you couldn't walk past the station restaurant without stopping for a cool one!

I remember workers from the yard coming down and welding mounts on the bridge wings for the .50 cal. machine guns we carried on our cruise to Tonkin Gulf. Also we got a couple of recoilless rifles/bazookas - 75 mm - I think, along with extra M-1's and .45's. Also believe we off loaded all our practice shot torpedoes and on loaded war shots - have to ask a TM if that was the case. Captain Bourne loved to bring those 50's to the bridge and blow the hell out of whatever we found floating/swimming around. Davis supplied a few 20 lb coffee cans for target practice. One poor shark of some kind also paid dearly for our entertainment.

And I do remember signing some kind of paper the XO gave us but don't remember what it was or what it said.

Hope to see you all in Duluth for the next convention,

Gary

From: HIS kid

To: bdecker@shentel.net

Cc: gary.l.crampton@lmco.com ; lewiscontrols@hotmail.com ; quendi@prodigy.net

Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 10:42 PM

Subject: Raton '64

Just finished reading all the different accounts of which cruise did what. Since I was a nonqual and only aboard for a short time, my memory tells me: yes, we finished the overhaul and Capt (LCDR?) Bourne was skipper. The Weapons Officer was LT Furtaw (had qualified aboard as a whitehat), and the COB was TMC(SS) "Rip" VanWinkle. The leading TM at the time was TM2 "Soupy" Campbell. I came aboard at Hunter's Point in Feb '64 and left in Aug or Sept '64.

We were in Subic for a 2-3 week upkeep, with #3 main engine and everything in the forward room on the pier. We were watching a flick from the pier to the sail when the Duty Officer got orders to get underway ASAP. All hands were ordered below, somebody had to go get the skipper at the O club. Right after he got back, he came into the forward room and talked to me and to TM2(SS) Campbell. He told us to load warshot torpedoes in all tubes and racks...leave exercise weapons on the pier. Since I had been in the overhaul shop aboard the Nereus, I asked him "all tubes?" I will never forget his answer..."This is NOT a drill".

We loaded all tubes, then we did the all-hands loading food which we stacked two layers deep on deck and every cranny you can think of including between the tubes.

I remember the spooks that came aboard and took over the Radio room... they were deaf/mutes!

I do not remember how many days we snorkled, but I had the helm when the order was given to surface on 4 main engines. That was my last dive because I voluntarily disqualled. We spent a couple of days getting to Manila, where a Sonar striker with a guitar and I jumped from the bull-nose to the pier, then the Rat backed down and I did not see her again till San Diego.

The paper? Yes I signed a paper - no, I don't remember what it said - no, I have never said any more than I have said here.

Hope this answers a couple of questions - it sure brings back memories.

Fresh air, following seas and God bless. TM3 Don Hall (at the time).

I left Raton on 10 October (in Manila) after we had remained submerged 54 days.

Just info I have in my personnel record...hope it clarifies the '64 cruise.

From: quendi

To: HIS kid

Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 12:14 AM

Subject: Re: Raton '64

I DON'T REMEMBER YOUR NAME OR YOUR FACE, HOWEVER I DO REMEMBER TWO GUYS (?) SHAKING IN THEIR BOOTS. ACTUALLY THEY WERE IN THEIR RACKS SHAKING AND BEGGING TO GET OFF THE BOAT. I REMEMBER THINKING, " GOOD DAMN RIDDANCE" WHEN THEY WERE GONE.

CANDIE

From: Bill Decker bdecker@shentel.net
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 1:42 PM
Subject: Fw: Raton Tape.

Shipmates,

I recently received a 5/6 minute VHS tape (converted from 16mm film) from Dave Blair EN2(SS) 1958-1961. He explains the circumstances of the tape below. I have viewed the tape and plan to have it available for viewing at the next reunion, hopefully in the fall of next year. If anyone would like a copy I will see if I can get the required number of copies made and mail to you ($5 should cover the cost of the tape and mailing). The tape is basically in the San Francisco Bay area going under the Golden Gate bridge and by Alcatraz. It was taken from a plane or helo and gets close enough to make out 270 a couple of times. It is not close enough to recognize anyone. Bill

----- Original Message -----

From: David Blair

To: Bill Decker

Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 9:20 AM

Subject: Re: Raton Tape.

Bill,Please make as many copies as you like/need.Please share it with anyone who has a interest in RATON.The film was shot in early 1961, in the San Francisco bay area as the 1st sea trials of coming out of the yards at Vallejo,Mare Island.This was the 1st time we had gotten underway after a yard overhaul.we did not make a dive, all surface work/checking out RATON. Thanks for all your work on keeping RATON alive. Dave

----- Original Message -----

From: Bill Decker

To: David Blair

Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 10:43 AM

Subject: Re: Raton Tape.

David,

Got the tape in the mail this morning. As I remember you said that it was taken as you were coming into San Francisco and going to Hunters Point NSY in 1961. Thats where I got on the Raton in January 1964. I will send out a short email to the Raton email list letting them know that I have the tape. If anyone is interested in getting a copy would you have any problem with me or someone making a copy for them? I imagine that a tape plus postage would probably cost around $5. I will also explain where and when it was filmed and who sent it to me. Thanks again for the tape. I will keep it and have it available at the next reunion whenever and wherever that is. Bill

----- Original Message -----

From: David Blair

To: Bill Decker

Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 6:16 PM

Subject: Raton Tape.

Bill Just a short note, did you receive the video tape ok? Dave